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Megan Swan, Lisa O.
Welcome back to Energetically You now in season three. We're here to talk all things optimal wellness, abundant mindset and empowered decision making. I'm your host Megan Swan, a wellness coach and consultant and the founder of Megan Swan wellness and the Sustainable Integrated Wellness approach. I help high performance humans thread more wellness into their lifestyle, so that it becomes a way of life and not a checkmark on their to do list. I do this through designing custom approachable wellness lifestyles because ultimately there is no one size fits all wellness. I'm on a mission to empower more humans through optimal wellness. Today on the show I am thrilled to interview and get to know better, Mrs. Lisa O. as she goes by or Lisa Capella she never thought she would turn to self written erotica to revamp her once kinky, saturated sex life that had become lost in the throes of motherhood. Oof how I relate to that. But as the saying goes, never say never writing short, erotic stories that are straight to the point body positive, realistic, witty, and terrifically naughty, helped her redefine her sexuality and became her passion permission maybe to break all taboos around the subject of sexuality, intimacy and pleasure. Can't wait for this conversation. Let's dive in. Welcome, Lisa. I love your handle the Mrs Lisa. O, can I tell us about what O stands for for you? Why you don't use your whole?
I would love to say but it's got a particularly special meaning but is actually the initial of my surname. My name is Lisa Opal, like the car. And Mrs. Lisa was actually my erotic name. I don't know if you've heard of that before. It's tell us it's the persona I adopt in the bedroom. Okay, so it's like, yeah, we're straight. And
this is how this conversation would go. But tell us, you know, take us back to that moment where, you know, what was this? What was the process? Like? It just was something you did for yourself initially? Or what what sparked this? It was this like, ongoing deep desire that you've always had, or, you know, popped up post, becoming a mother. What was that?
So it's been a long journey. And it's an ongoing journey. I have finally understood that the sexual evolution of every person goes on and on and on. And it's not what they teach us in sex education. For sure. I have been married, but I've been with my partner for 14 years now. And we had a fantastic relationship. We still do just have a couple of bumps on the way after becoming a mother seven years ago, I I kind of sacrificed myself, I guess, and I disappeared in the role of being a mother. And it wasn't aided by the fact that COVID hits. So I found myself sinking deeper and deeper and deeper into just being a mum, I lost sight of myself as a mother as a mother. I was a mother as a woman, especially a woman and also a woman in a relationship. And it got to the point where everything was incredibly difficult and we considered divorce we weren't talking to each other the way we used to and all intimacy was lost. And please pinch me hard was born from desperation. It's a bit phoenix from the ashes I guess. Yeah, I've never thought of it that way. But I guess and I started with I'll do the short version of the story seeking help from professionals. That was non existent. So doctors just said You're fine, you're healthy. And I feel great, but I'm stood before imminent divorce. So something obviously is not right. And I started going down a rabbit hole of research and over, I think probably the last one and a half years. I have explored all things loss of last. How to enhance your desire, how to become more mindful with your pleasure, how to incorporate pleasure into everyday life and basically Grow that last area of the brain again, and also simultaneously be able to be a mother, a friend, a sister, etc. Which sounds like a lot of work.
Yeah, no, but you're preaching to the choir. I mean, I'm deeply marinating myself and all those topics. Well, starting, like about a year ago, became particularly interested. And so, and everything else you just said really resonates with me too. I'm sure it does a lot of of moms and just losing ourselves. Can you talk a little bit to the point that like, I don't? I mean, definitely, there's some religious roots of it being very overt. But I think even in, in very modern feminine feminist circles, there's still this understanding that your sexuality and your motherhood are two distinct, separate, not connected in any way things. Can you speak to that?
I do believe, and I've had lots of, I don't know, cases sounds terrible. But I've had lots of conversations with mothers, but also their partners about how it's affected their sexuality, the woman becoming a mother that does that is rooted in religious origins, for sure. But for me, the secret was to separate those two again, for me, I had to be radical, because I don't believe it's the mother that experiences lust, it's the woman. So by categorically distinguishing those two, I allowed myself to feel a different kind of happiness as a mother, and appreciate that more holy, and different kinds of happiness as a woman, and I mean that in the broadest sense of the term, so it wasn't just reigniting my passion, my desire, it was reigniting the part of me that feels that as a woman, but I do believe the two need to be separated, because it gets very muddled.
I think, if you don't, yeah, and do you think? Or I guess, maybe what helped you, other than, I guess maybe the fate of your your marriage, like what helped you give yourself permission to like, put more energy back into feeling into your womanhood.
There was permission, and there was also allowing myself to let go a little bit. I was a very Mother, mother, mother, our son also had health problems. So for me, it was allowing myself to not be present all the time. So by taking a step back, it meant I had a bit more space to become the new me, I don't think we can ever become the woman we were before children, too much has changed physically, mentally, emotionally. But I do believe by taking a step back, and also saying, I want the children to spend more time elsewhere, etc. That helped me look forward. And in general, I mean, it is, it's a potpourri of things that I had to change about myself. But I just realized how unhappy I was as a single person, just me as myself and the dynamics of my family. I was not happy anymore. And so we never met in the middle, my partner and I, we didn't meet in the middle anymore. He was too invested in helping me become happy again. And it was that first step of saying, like you said, I allow myself to be happy, which seems crazy because why would you have to allow yourself but it was that overpowered by by allowing myself to take a step back. And that will bring me happiness again, that will allow me to breathe for a moment because if we're always 24/7 Mother, just allowing ourselves a breather will give us space and energy to do something
different. Yeah, I mean, I would say before always 24/7 anything right? Exactly. For me this last year really doubling down on focusing on my personal connection with my sexuality reconnecting me first which ultimately spills over into your your partnerships, of course, but it did surprise me that it's built over into well, I mean, I my journey, I just realized that I would come categorize this as sexual wellness and having it be like essential to all optimal wellness, whether you're with a partner or not just having like a deep personal relationship and understanding of your own pleasure and like a practice around that. Yeah, ultimately, it did make me a better mother and that it just made me a better human right. Therefore, I'm more patient, more understanding more all the things that a good mother and I think, to your point, but I think it's so hard for so many moms to, to experiment with that stepping back and letting go a little bit because there's just so much fear around, you know, what that means about what that says about me as a mother, what like, you know, there's just so many narratives that we tell ourselves. But ultimately, I think I've learned over the years that that grasping tightly onto anything is not sustainable.
Absolutely not. I also strongly see if a mother is unhappy, most likely the family is unhappy. I once did a workshop and there was a mother there who looked on the brink of tears. And she said, I want to be the son that my family revolves around. And I remember sitting there thinking, darling, that is bound to end in a catastrophe. Because it's not sustainable. I can't always be happy. And it cannot be that if I'm unhappy, the whole family is unhappy. And teaching that emotional wellness to our children and living it and saying, you know, I'm unhappy, but it's okay. You can be happy, changes the dynamics as well. And absolutely sexual wellness. I feel like, at least my generation, I think the generations that follow now they're being educated differently. But my sex education was, you have it, you don't talk about it. Nobody knows what it really is, what's good, what's not how to live a healthy relationship, you just get on with it. And it wasn't until I became a mother that I realized how essential it was to talk about it. And to experiment, like you said, and I get the question a lot from mums saying, Well, you know, that's another thing on my to do list. That's something else that I have to add to my day. And I'm stressed enough as it is I want to curl into a ball leave me alone. Is there a quick fix? Of course, there's not a quick fix with anything. So yes, you can try and take all the tablets or whatever they tell you. But it's I always say it's a symptom, the lack of desire that many women experience, it's a symptom, I believe there's a much deeper cause. And for me, it was completely revisiting my entire life, the structure of my life, it was physical, it was analyzing what's happened to my body post birth, so many women have so much trauma steal from the bath, that nothing can happen until that's been worked on. I had a look, do I like the way I look? Now you get into this whole mum bun and baggy jeans so often, but sort of having a look at that again, and wanting to dress up and wanting to feel pretty is also relevant, that also makes you feel sexy. And all of that, too. I mean, I sorted out friendships. I went as far as saying, you know, they're not good for me anymore. So it's a lot of things. That's just two things I have like poor bags, things that we need to revisit, because you can't just say, I, I want to improve my sexual wellness. If you're not willing to have a look at the other areas of your life where you're perhaps lacking pleasure, lacking desire someone in an incredibly unhappy job, saying, Oh, I don't want to have sex. It translates, doesn't it? I mean, how are you going to want to have great sex if you're unhappy the majority of your day. So there's a lot more.
Yeah, I love your pink truck suit though. You look very cozy.
Thank you very much. It is so cold here like I've even got when he talks on
Well, I think I mean, I look at it as being sort of these threads because for me, like I focused on other parts of taking care of me better post motherhood and and they just kind of was like this domino effect. I'm just having higher and higher standards of non negotiables in terms of taking better care of myself. And what led me to. Ultimately, like, I don't think it's to your point like it's everything is ongoing evolution, I don't think it's the last thing that I'm going to be focusing on by any means. And it's definitely this endless Pandora's box of discovery, which I think is was one of the more fascinating areas you can focus. But so many people, it's just so much information about focusing on how you look physically or focusing on like, what you're eating or moving your body. And those are all essential things I truly believe. But I feel like this could be a conduit for a lot of moms who just don't are bored of all that being stuff told to them. Because you can just like reignite this deep energy and love, essentially, I mean, if that's what I, I feel like the energy is the sexual energy, some sort of frequency of love, right? And ultimately, it turns in on you first, and therefore it can spark all sorts of positive changes across your life. And you know, maybe you'll quit your job, maybe you won't, but
Oh, don't get me wrong, I physical appearance. That's not my go to when, when I did that part of my project, I guess, on helping myself, I looked at myself, and I said, you're fine. You look great. And then I said, Would you actively change things about yourself that you don't like so much? And then I thought, no, because I'm rather lazy. And so I said, I'm just going to love myself the way I am. And I am now going to let my body feel pleasure. I want to let my body have all that, like you said, energy and use it and managed to connect my mind with my body managed to have thoughts that are sexy, which translate into my body. I think that is one of the biggest burdens for mums. I don't think, you know, when I have sexy time, some of the times I'm in the slouches clothes, I can find it starts in our brains so often, you know, this is why I write erotica, which is instantly considered so taboo. You know, every time I say I've got short stories, because it's Mom friendly, you know, you can always sneak in a short story somewhere. People like what, what? How can you and I said, you know, if you have different in Germany, we have a phrase that says comma, love under a gang, come to different thoughts. And it's hilarious, because obviously it says come in it. But just different thoughts, this whole mental workload as a mother, where can't everything, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, to just take a minute during your day, and this is what I always say to everybody. Just take a minute, in your day, everybody has a minute, whether you're having a wee, whether you're cooking, whether I don't know folding laundry, have a thing to something you particularly like, or liked before, whatever it is, and think about it, because these small things, being mindful about our pleasure, generates the first spark. And from that we can ignite a fire. So it's not about what you're wearing. And I always say if you're uncomfortable, put a T shirt on. I had leaky boobs, put a bra on. It's like, I don't get hung up on body stuff. I I love my body now. I think it's magical. If my children can snuggle on my tummy, and say, Mommy, this is where we came from. It's so soft. It's so lovely. Why shouldn't I love my tummy?
Yes. Love that. You said all that. So can you paint the picture a little bit deeper? I guess how? For at what point you decided that it was going to be this as your self expression as your personal passion? Yeah, how did it start?
Funny? I so I started writing these stories just for myself. I just, I don't know how I thought of it. I used to work in a fetish shop. So I experienced so much I went to parties. I really I saw a lot I experienced lots of couples and different dynamics. And so I thought I'm gonna write about the things I know. I've always loved writing out of these stories. I I didn't know I thought all right, I'll share it with some friends and I shared it with some friends and non mom friends and they were all like, wow, that's really great and so built up a bit of confidence, kept writing To realize snowball effect all the mums were coming to me and saying, Lisa, can we talk about these things? And I've always been open talking about sexuality. It's never bothered me. And I said, Of course we can. And so I found myself, anybody who I shared it with, they were like, you know, and I'm having problems with this. I'm not happy about that. And we used to always do that. But now I don't like it. And I found myself in this sort of Coffee Time. With therapists will see you now, but so wonderfully, they were all opening up to me, and they all wanted to talk. And I thought there is such a need here. Because we're a woman, in maybe a short skirt, or however, and we're perceived as a sexual being, we become a mother. And the mere fact that we have born a child suddenly makes us less of a woman. Majority of the time, and I can't accept that. That for me is just, and due to all of this, nobody's talking about it. It's become so taboo. So we've got all these mothers who are struggling to find their way back to some sort of normality, plus trying to keep something alive, and struggling and flailing and I thought, Wow, I love what I do. I love talking, I research so much. I had a talk with somebody today. And she said, How do you know all these things I said, I went down a research tunnel. It was just I had to help myself. And so when I decided to publish my book, I launched my web page, my Instagram, and I said, I'm here now. And actually, at first, my Instagram was anonymous. And it was it didn't do anything. And the minute I put my face to wear, and the minute I showed myself as a mom with wrinkles, and belly rolls, and just living a normal life trying to cope, everybody came flooding. And it's been incredible. Just the journeys of some of the mums that I've experienced. Now. I wouldn't want it any other way. If I can help just one mum who's been suffering in silence than I'm happy, and I've helped more than one. Yeah, I'm sure.
So why do you think it is because I mean, when I was in my 20s, it's not like we had, you know, philosophical, you know, intellectual conversations, per se about sex. However, you certainly talked about it more openly amongst girlfriends. And I feel like, there's just something like post motherhood, that it's even more taboo. To not share even with your girlfriends, let alone in like a dinner party with couples.
I think again, that's part of this society's taboo, you are now a mother, you do not have sex. It is it is forbidden, forbidden, your child should know something about sex, my children know their vulva from the vagina. You know, this is all this misconception of how mothers need to be should be. I'd much rather my child knows these things. And if a child 10 years older, comes along, says the my kid knows what they're talking about. I'd much rather it that way. I think when we were 20 It was light. It was superficial. It was something we talked about maybe exaggerated in some areas. And now as a mother, definitely nobody wants to say that it's not going well. It was always the same as soon as I say, oh, it's catastrophic call then they open up. But nobody wants to say they're failing. And I guess having this ethereal vision of how a mother needs to be has tainted all other conversations that we should be having.
Yeah. And so what are your plans? Are you gonna start a podcast? Are you Is there an audio book coming? Like what's, what's the next step?
I have so much admiration for you. I would the hours I have, I would love to do a podcast. But with the hours I have, I've decided very much to concentrate on what gives me pleasure, which is in fact writing. So I am there for the community. That's something I love to do. And otherwise I need to be writing. My second book is in the pipeline. I don't keep it a secret it will be the sexual evolution of one woman from sex education to post menopause because there we hit yet another bump in the road. That menopause is only now gaining traction. Of course, because I've not got experienced yet I will be working with companies that do and charities and communities. But that's the plan for the second book, because I feel it's so valuable to know what might be coming. I wish somebody had told me before I became a mother. All the things that could happen. I'm a bit of a worst case scenario person good in some situations, bad and others. And I believe to have just a little glimpse and still be an optimist is helpful. And I tell lots of mums, I say, don't lose sight of who you are. What makes you happy, don't lose sight of your relationship. It's invaluable advice that I wish I'd been given.
No, I love the upcoming book too. That's brilliant. I have a feeling it's going to be incredibly successful.
That's the feedback I get. I just need to write it now.
No pressure. So are is your current book available in English, or just in German?
It's in English. Yeah, I write solely in English. I grew up in Portugal, and I went to an English school. So English is the language of choice for me. And also I adore the wit of the language. And I always say bedroom banter. I believe humor is such a big part of sexuality, seeing things light heartedly, being able to talk and laugh and share that intimacy. And so I feel the English language as opposed to German reflects that much better. And I find the right words, to lighten somewhat more difficult part in a story, because I'm very realistic in what I write about. And I cover all topics from menstruation, sex to the lactating mother, six months postpartum. It's real, because that was one of the things that bothered me that everything was always so picture perfect. And I couldn't relate to that. That wasn't me. So English light hearted, and realistic.
I love it. So when you write, are you imagining that this is sort of like a treat that the woman keeps to herself? Or is this something that she shares with her partner, or it's could be either or, could be either
Oh, I've experienced both from people that have read my book, I've heard from some, they love to read it to their partner, it's become an integration of that, in that foreplay, and others, they binge it on their own. But when I write, my main goal is to keep it somewhat neutral so that everybody can imagine themselves in that role. And very open. So I don't you know, I don't obsess with orgasms. And I try and keep it as natural as possible. No 1980s Typical, stereotypical porn situations, none of that. Unless it's planned, and part of the scene, I don't do that. But it is very much for self indulgence. And if you share with a partner, that's an absolute bonus.
I feel like another logical progression for you would to be write. Sort of more progressive sex ed kids books. So
yes, I mean, there is fantastic stuff out there already, at least here in Germany, we've got great stuff popping up. I mean, massive progress is that the clitoris is now being shown in biology books. So hooray for us. Absolutely. Who knows, I might venture in that direction. I've been going down my poetry passion. The last few stories I wrote. And maybe that would be lovely for children to have poetic sex education that they can sing in the schoolyard.
Well, other than you know, connecting with you to Instagram and getting your book is there any sort of like last parting words you want to leave to someone who's listening that you know really kind of feels that well, at the very least super curious, you know, disconnected at the current moment with their sexuality and just kind of needs like a little bit of permission or encouragement.
My webpage please pinchmehard.com is a good start, which is
brilliant. Thank you very much.
Always consensual. Always a dreamer. That's always a knock on the door. And if you want to throw the door open full throttle, then my Instagram is definitely the place to be I, I am known as quite authentic. I talk about the motherhood stuff, I say when it's all going tits up. And that's why you can also slide into my direct messages, if you know is getting a bit too much. And you just want a quick chat with a kind of Stranger in your phone. It's happened before. And I welcome anybody else who's feeling a bit stuck at the moment. And last, because there is so much more than what we scratched the surface on. It's
potentially actually posted public a and Yeah. Almost the transmits in a given post, right. Like I think I really connected deeply with a lot of people and direct messages on Instagram. So that's right. Yeah, so you're just a breath of fresh air. Lisa, I'm so happy that I've discovered you and can't wait to get your book in my hands on your book. And, yeah, keep us posted for the rest.
Definitely, definitely. Thank you so much for having me and your web pages. Fantastic. I couldn't start reading it today. My kid came out and said, Mommy, we gotta go. And I was like, No, I'm still reading it. Thank you know, it's fantastic.
Thanks, Lisa. Well, we'll be in touch. Thanks again. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you and I hope that you enjoyed this conversation. I would be really appreciative if you feel so called to support the show by either subscribing to the show on your favorite podcast platform, leaving us a review and passing this episode or another favorite episode on to a friend. I hope you have a beautiful week wherever you are in the world. Sending you my love